Crilix Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 If any of you have been paying the slightest attention to recent news (Like me), you've heard about the recent mess surrounding a Danish cartoon featuring Mohammed. For those of you totally oblivious to the situation, a quick recap: A Danish newspaper editor decided they were cencoring themselves too heavily, so he had a cartoonist draw Muhammed (An ancient Islamic prophet/religious figure). In their religion, it is forbidden to have any illustrated or sculpted representations of this man, to prevent him from being idolized. So, not only is the Muslim population insulted at the comic itself, but they're furious that it is a drawn representation of Mohammed itself. So furious, there have been riots, embassies have been burned, and people killed. They're even calling for a Jihad (The equivelant of a Muslim religious crusade of war). Now, there are several things that tick me off about this whole ordeal. First off, it's a CARTOON. Since when were they supposed to be taken seriously? Yes it was offensive, yes it was in poor taste. The fact of the matter is that cartoons are used to do do just those things with the aim of getting a few laughs or smirks rather than a violent outlash. Second, FREE SPEECH. What is wrong with these people? Okay, so maybe they don't have such luxeries where they live, but they have no place to be deciding what the rest of the world thinks, writes, or says. Third, and most frusterating to me, is that they are imposing their religion on the rest of the world by reacting violently and calling for a Jihad. Don't get me wrong, I beleive that all men have the right to "worship how, where, or what they may". Within reason that they are not harming others who do not worship the same way. By reacting the way they are, it feels like they're trying to get the world to agree with their faith and agree that the cartoon was in the wrong. They impose their faith on every single person that is brough to harm through their actions, as that is the concequence for breaking a rule of their faith. I just don't get it. If you don't like something, ignore it and get it out of your life. You don't need to go around and get it out of everyone's life, especially when they didn't ask for it. And people wonder why Muslims are painted a violent and zealous people. They're killing and destroying over a freaking CARTOON. And they still want to escilate it to a Jihad. ARGH! Part of me wants to find the cartoon, and post it on the site with a caption that reads something to the effect of "We support freedom of speech and the right to remain free from Muslim domination". See if we can get it posted all over the internet. A futile effort, but it'd be nice to see that some people care about how this whole mess is being handled, and that we aren't going to give way to a violation of rights for the sake of religion. Another part of me, though, wants to just give them what they want so that the conflict doesn't escalate. Enough people have died, enough has been destroyed. That part of me is also my religious side talking, as I know what a soft and protective part of my life it is. I like to think and hope that I'd never participate in a riot or hurt someone over something that infringes on my standards but not on those of the other people. -Cril PS- I don't claim to have an in-depth or even half decent understanding of the Islam religion, so my apologies if any of what I said was drastically incorrect or out of place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzerker Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Religion is the basis for all Evil. More people have died for the sake of religion than any other cause. How lame is that. I am an Athiest through and through. No gods, no heaven. Live to Die and have fun while your here. Maybe Ill sign up for Scientology.... I like L.Ron Hubbard books. Berz out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etru_scan Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Hey chris, im glad you posted this, i hadnt quite gotten around to it but meant to.. Ive been doinga whack of reading on this, and some thinking. I think it's really terrible, but not for obvious reasons. I wanted to clarify a few things first tho, specifically ones you mentioned : The Koran doesn't specifically forbid depictions of the prophet - This is a big misunderstanding.. The Koran and Islamic faith prohibit worshiping idols & literal depictions of things such as the prophet, shrines or whatnot.. but not specifically muhhamed. Its simmilar to the 'thou shal not worship false idols' that christianity eschews - its realyl a pretty universal concept. But the cartoons arent specifically 'taboo' according to ANYthign in the Koran. This is actually why islamic art is so markedly different that christian religious art - Because they could not depict things literally, they were forced to think around this - If you look at islamic art, youll immediately realise that they use alot of verse and geometry. I believe alot of the patterns are abstracts 'derived' from the verses in the koran or some crazy shit, but im not 100% on that. But their entire aesthetic developed around the principle that literal depictions are a no-no. Without going on a rant, ill just state my main opinion - that this uproar has precious little to do with the cartoons, and much, much much more to do with the current worldwide perceptions of muslims regarding their stature amongst average westerners. There is a perception, gee-i-wonder-why, that westerners do not respect Islam, that westerners are a lost people, that the christians are coming for them, and that they must be stopped. The Cartoons are simply a catalyst - to understand you have to look a little deeper. This has nothing to do with cartoons - it has everything to do with a long simmering showdown between Islam and the ' West ' A serious danger imo is that radicals, with simple violent actions, can create a HUGE influence via the media, a completely unfair influence. The average thinking muslim, as with their christian counterparts, is a peacefull one. They know the difference between right and wrong, reson and extremism, guilty and innocent. They dont hate america. They dont love binladen. They are people like you and me. But extremists, fundamentalists.. all these people lost to ANY religion, justifying their actions under the age old assumption that the end justifies the means, have an incredible power today. A couple hundred dollars worth of bribes, gear and bombs gets them international media coverage and therefore instant exposure.. and communication. With one bomb, radical cells everywhere see it's open season on danish property anywhere they see it, and the rest is history. Thats really the most frightening part - You put a bunch of hard done by, undereducated, fundamentalists in a room and show them a cartoon ridiculing their faith, and it's all about straws and camelbacks. Someones gonna pay. Anyways, love to discuss this. thanks for posting chris ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digits Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 My teacher had a good point on this.. You can't go around drawing pictures of someone pissing on Jeesus, or walking around with a shirt that says Fuck You on it.. I mean you could, but your going to get http://www.fnfclan.com/uploads/uploads/emoticons/default_argue.gif The only reason we don't agree with the riots, is because that isn't our religion, i'm sure if there were billboards of someone pissing on Jeesus posted all around the country there would be an uproar. It probablly wouldn't be to the same extent, but different cultures deal with situations differently. I honestly don't think they're wrong for protesting the cartoons, but I do think they are taking it to too much of an extreme, but would anything even get done if it wasn't such an extreme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etru_scan Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Good points, for sure - Theres no way you can argue that muslims as a whole shouldn't feel insulted, they certainly have the opportunity to feel that way regardless of what the Koran has to say.. But why THIS outraged ? why did THESE cartoons set 'them' off ? im of the opinion the cartoons are just a catalyst - that muslim rage twoards the west has been ratcheting up and up and up and up for years, to the point where a few radical hardliners can take somethign so trivial as a cartoon, and create an international incident over it. With every bomb that falls in iraq that rage just cranks up a little bit tighter, the intolerance and sense of disrespect gets that much bigger... and can you blame them ? If i was from that part of the world, you can bet i'd most likely fight back too. Thats just human instinct ! One other thing i think is totally sad though is that people are getting hurt over this, that free societies have taken the low road, fired editors, staff, recalled ambassadors, and generally lost their heads. With every shitty thing that happens, there is always an opportunity for good within it. Standing for freedom of speech, harboring venues for intelligent discourse between nations, and generally trying to bring east and west closer is what this should have turned into. Now it's an us-vs-them thing, and im telling you - i feel it in my bones - it's going to end badly, in our lifetimes. someones gonna drop a bizzomb on SOMEone, and then things are going to get right fucked. Living in interesting times, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepsiHomer Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 *EDIT* Forget what I said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colossus Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Beer goes in here /pointsAtMouth mmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etru_scan Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 lol hope i didnt miss anything good g ? im curious if anyone cares to drop in on this - does anyone see much talk of this daily, in rl ? like at work or whatever ? we've talked about it at work a bunch, but not realyl all that much. but we're info junkies, always calling out the headlines during the day, so we're bound to.. anyone have any sort of meaningfull discussion like pep at school, or with family or at work ? jus curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha_ Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I pretty much have the same viewpoint as Digits. Just because we think it's not "wrong" doesn't mean it is. This is completely the same as cultural studies. One culture may look at something as "wrong" while it may not be in another. I don't see the riots as "wrong". It's because they're standing up for what they believe in and I respect that. Do I support it? No... I do understand why they do it though. As for the issue of free speech, I don't think that's even anything remotely close to what the issue is. It's a matter of courtesy. "You don't diss my religion, I don't diss yours." Well, not exactly to that extent, but something along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coelacanth Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I have read about this...a fair amount... However, for some reason, and I really dont know why, I just dont even care. I have no opinion...my response is *shrug* Kinda weird...I didnt expect to be so indifferent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaderOnIce Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I kinda just felt like bombing the lot of dumb fuckers. I don't think that any god whatsoever would want the kind of shit that's going on to continue. It's a cartoon. Calm the fuck down. If you truly believe that you are right in your belief then you should just think, ahahahahaha, oh boy, they're gonna get it when armageddon comes. I mean, shit, that's more room for you in that heaven or whatever, right? So shut the fuck up and smile knowingly. All that's going to happen when they behave the way they do is that the bigger group now has a good reason to wipe you out. It's evolution. The strong survive. Boom. Now there's cartoons all over your graves and Barney the dinosaur is fucking Allah in the ass with the Koran in Mecca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digits Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 One thing to add to my points.. I believe that they have the right to be angry.. But they don't have the right to make death threats and cause harm to others. I think the way Muslims handle this stuff is wrong. Look at Theo Van Gogh, killed over stuff he said. They wonder why we label them as terrorists and such, but truth be told they earned that title, atleast some of the extremists did. I think it's just more glorified because it's the Muslims that are doing it. I know there are white extremists in Canada and America that kill blacks, jews, and others just because. I just don't think anyone has the right to kill/cause harm to someone that is culturally different. Even if they do make racist remarks or anything of the sort. It's when the stuff turns violent that there becomes a major problem. Fuck it though, people shouldn't even be expressing racism and shit towards one another, we're all humans arn't we? Fuck religions, always causing problems http://www.fnfclan.com/uploads/uploads/emoticons/default_ranting2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bitch Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 when it comes to cartoons I think we should be responsible for our own actions and our childrens as for religion I'm an agnostic theist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etru_scan Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 You know, i always tend to blame organized religion as one of the things that drags us down as a race, but its worse than that. The world is just a gigantic piece of shit. Everyone looks out for themselves, and everyone would sooner think they're right than admit they could be wrong, me included. Its a cesspool i just hope to make it through without suffering too badly. I think love stands out as a great thing because its truly the one force that can draw us out of our shell enough to act selflessly, putting another person first, and thats it. And since our love is finite due to the hardwiring in our brains, the world will never get better, so long as there's humans around running it unchecked. I sincerely hope one day soon some thing comes along and takes this planet away from us, because we so clearly do not deserve it. I only hope they let us off lightly for some of the things we've done while running it. Sorry. i just saw ' The constant gardener ' ... im not in the best mood when it comes to defending humanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etru_scan Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 oh, btw - Here are the 12 cartoons incase any of you havent seen them. SO fucking outrageous: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish1.jpghttp://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish002.jpg http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish003.jpghttp://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish004.jpg http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish005.jpghttp://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish006.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.